Satellite Internet Forum

[ruraldude]

Hey guys,

I finally found a Satellite VOIP provider which works over my HughesNet HN7000 Standard $59.99 plan. I live in the rural area in Massachusetts called the Berkshires where I use to have to drive miles away from home to get cell phone service. I have been looking for a VOIP provider that works for years over Satellite.

Anyways, I have a friend from Arkansas who is a HughesNet reseller and he recommended that I call SunISP. At that point I thought I was going to waste my money on another disappointment. I had already tried Vonage, Skype, SunRocket and many hours preying that they would work. The problem was, even if one of those providers did work, they took up too much of my bandwidth package in the Fair Access Policy us low package users are oh so familiar with. Not to mention it is so annoying how all those AOL users and video game players are slowing down our Satellite Internet speed as it is.

I went online and did some research. So many people told me that Hughes would not support VOIP. I think its because they would not be able to handle all of the additional VOIP traffic in addition to the mess they are currently experiencing. However, I got sick and tired of not being able to communicate cheaply from my home, let alone communicate at all. I decided to give SunISP a shot.

Surprise-Surprise, I was welcomed by an American English speaking individual. The first thing they asked - Are you using Hughes, Wildblue, Starband, I-direct, or WildBlue? I told them about my situation and they promised they would give me my money back if it didn't work. Looking at the collection of failed devices I had ordered from my previous hopes at a solution (now being used as coffee coasters), I decided I had nothing to lose, and their website was really simple and developed. So anyways, the technician walked me through the Activate section on the site, and 5 days later, the Postman delivered a box with an ATA device inside - Dejavou all over again.

I took out the box,  and downloaded the activation instructional PDF that they had sent me in my email. Then I plugged one of my analog phones which strangely I had kept from before I had moved up here. Then the moment of truth....I picked up the phone and heard the most beautiful sound of all - a dial tone.

The first person that I called was my dad. He automatically assumed I took a ride into town like I usually do when I needed urgently to use the cell phone. The best part was that the quality was amazing, and there was very little delay between my father and I. I don't know how SunISP did it but I don't really care. 10 Thank You emails later, I am still a happy SunISP customer.

[voip-investigation]

downloaded the activation instructional PDF that they had sent me in my email.

I found their website, and it's almost completely devoid of technical info.
I'd be interested in reading that instructional PDF, if you wouldn't mind posting the link.

[ruraldude]

Their instructional PDF merely explains how to set up the box once you receive it because there was no way I could set up the box with them over the phone when I can only use my cell phone many miles away from the system. So I just downloaded it and followed the step by step instructions. I wasn't really looking for technical information when I visited the site, but if I ever do have questions, I just go to the FAQ section or call them up. Will that type of PDF be of any value to you? I think you are looking to know how they actually transmit the VOIP over satellite. You can always ask them.

[voip-investigation]

Their FAQ section is completely devoid of technical data, and the VoIP FAQ link doesn't even work. I see nothing of (technical) substance there whatsoever.

Your failure to provide a link to an already cited PDF is shoring up my original suspicion that you're shilling for Sun-ISP. I'll permit one more opportunity to volunteer the requested information before I reportet this thread to administrator as SPAM.

[ruraldude]

I really don't know but the link for the FAQ did work for me.

The Activation PDF that they sent me was via email after I signed up but before I received the box. I can email it to you if you want, but I haven't been able to find it on the site as well.

I have a lot of respect for this forum and just wanted to talk about a product which has really helped me. I don't want you to think that this is some cheesy advertising stunt where I would be taking advantage of the community here. If your suspicions overcome you, I understand that you are merely doing your job.

[voip-investigation]

Nothing technical there either, just more promotional stuff. From their site map, I tried to follow what was identified as a VoIP FAQ link - on the chance it would lead to some technical info. Another dead end, the link didn't even work.

As I said, the entire site is apparently devoid of anything but self-promotion (and a massive subscriber agreement). I personally won't buy - or even recommend - any product until I know how (or if) it works.

[ruraldude]

You make an interesting point. They really don't explain to us how they actually make VoIP work better than the others. I went to a lot of other sites in the past which were jam packed with all different types of information on the inner workings of the VOIP but when it came time to plug in the box, I ended up knowing a whole lot of information about services which didn't work.

[satbaja]

There is nothing "Magical" that a VOIP provider can do.  They can force the ATA box to use less bandwidth, but the bandwidth has to be there consistently, 100% of the time.  How many days have you had VOIP with Hughesnet?  Would you update us in a month or two?

Ordinary Starband or Hughesnet $59.99 customers don't all have the luxury of a consistent connection that permits VOIP calls.  I don't doubt you had success with your calls as you report.  Be prepared for problems once your resources on Hughesnet get stretched thin.

I noticed they sell VSAT systems and advertise the Starband Nova system supports 2 - 4 concurrent VOIP phone lines.  I know this is not possible as Starband uses TDMA, changes the transmit frequency constantly.  They burst data, and re-transmit if it collides.  They don't provide a connection for VOIP and don't claim VOIP quality.  It is a residential or small office product for data only.

[ruraldude]

Ok, I'll copy and paste your questions and email them to my friend from Arkansas who is a Satellite Installer/Dealer. I am sure he can provide me with a technical answer since I doubt he would recommend it to me without knowing something. I will also give you feedback on my experience with the product. Currently, since it came in the mail, it has been working fantastic. Once in a while my voice drops out but overall, I wouldn't mind if this thing wasn't absolutely perfect all the time, so long as it works most of the time (or more than the other companies). So far, I haven't had any issues but as I said, I am sure Arkansas guy can help us figure it out.

[ruraldude]

Hey guys, I spoke to  my friend from Arkansas and this is what he told me . Initially when SunISP contacted him, he was also taken a back by the lack of information on the site. So then I  asked him - "why did you put your name behind the product and offer it to me?" He answered " I got to try the the product  for free." He continued to explain to me that SunISP would not divulge its personal technical information on how exactly they make the VOIP work. However, he was able to be sold on the product because SunISP allows its users  to have the product on a trial period via a software phone for free until they are satisfied with the product's viability before they sign up. On the technical end, he told me that they alleviate issues usually incurred by Vonage users by "lowering the amount of bandwidth required to transmit a call to 8 Kbps." This means that even during peak hours when Uplink bandwidth speeds are low, a call will only require requires 8 kbps of bandwidth to transmit the call. Although the company didn't volunteer the information to him, he was able to us a badwidth meter to measure the amount of bandwidth which was being used during the call.

Feedback on my use: So far, since I have been using the phone, I find that the quality and dependability is superior to all the companies I have used without comparison. On about 2 or 3 calls, I did experience some latency. However, I called Tech Support and they helped me alleviate the issue to an acceptable level. I hope this was helpful.

Ruraldude

[Terry Fox]

I would echo voip-investigation's concern. You should study the subscriber agreement carefully and try to work out the implications to you.

Any system that involves downloading software to your PC and using your PC as part of a phone system risks you being defrauded as a result of your PC getting hacked in some way. A bad service provider, some wireless hacker over the road, some bad person anywhere etc. might actually route their VoIP termination traffic into and then out of your PC and you might then find your credit card debited for thousands of calls that have been directed into your PC which have then gone out again to the VoIP service provider you have signed up to with your card. An always ON PC on a broadband connection needs a good firewall but if you download software this may bypass critical aspects. Your PC may also get a silent virus or similar which compromises your PC.

I know VoIP appears amazing and almost free, but it does come with some risks which we are only just beginning to understand. Rather then being billed for your calls made, you would be safer if you put in say $50 initially and were then cut off when the money ran out.

In my opinion, VoIP hardware phones, working directly via ethernet (i.e. no PC involved) are the safer way to go, but even then your router must be hardened. Use long cryptic passwords, 8 - 12 characters with assorted letters, upper and lower case plus numbers. The same password considerations apply also to the configuration management of the hardware phone itself, which may well contain a mini UNIX style operating system.

[ruraldude]

Thanks for such wonderful advice. I'm definitely going to research a company a lot more before I run any services which require a connection to their servers. On the brighter side, I am happy that I have the hardware. I am also happy that it was a friend, a fellow VSAT installer, whom I had trusted. I guess the company will have to make some changes to their website which will give off an energy of trust by providing more information.

However, whats stopping individuals from simply collecting information, putting it on a site making promises and then doing all those horrific things that you spoke of earlier? Why should a bunch of words take precendent over a "proof is in the pudding" type approach?

In an attempt to answer my own question, I think people gain trust for a company when the company places itself in the public spotlight for the world to see and criticize.

But then, how should small companies achieve trust from the public  if they don't  have the same advertising budget as Vonage?

Rural Dude

[satbaja]

Terry is saying a hardware approach to VOIP is safer and better than a software/hardware system.

You are representing SunISP to be different in some matter from 3 other VOIP providers but haven't shown anything they do differently.  Nothing on their website shows what they might be doing magically to make their system work for satellite users.

Your statement about updating the SunISP website to gain customer's trust and the one about a small advertising budget of Sun ISP really does suggest to me that you work for them.

[voip-investigation]

Your statement about updating the SunISP website to gain customer's trust and the one about a small advertising budget of Sun ISP really does suggest to me that you work for them.

Sun-ISP has started similar self-promotions on other satellite forums, many of which were (justifiably) deleted as SPAM. I withheld the temptation to report this one to administrator, waiting to see how this new approach developed. But the tone of his last post pretty much nailed it for me too.

[voip-investigation]

At this point, the topic will remain open. It's currently of more value to the subject of slick but uninformative product promotion, than it is to otherwise glowing but unsubstantiated claims that "it works". And even the word "workability" in this instance is uninformative. It's a noun that's essentially meaningless until quantified against reference or standard. Informed customers want to know - or at least be given the opportunity to figure out - HOW and WHY it's better than WHAT. The SunISP website - especially with regard to this nebulous VoIP product - was apparently put together by a marketeer and a lawyer. It's completely devoid of any technical description, specification, or even reference to VoIP standards. In the extreme, it's an insult to the intelligence of comparison shoppers.

To me a more appropriate word in this instance, may have been "salability". You can't SELL me anything, until I'm given the opportunity to compare your product against the competition. The first step in doing that in this case, is to freely provide usable technical information to put on one side of the decision scale. The vast majority of retailers understand this, and provide - at a minimum - manufacturers' tech specs. That opens the door to giving potential customers the opportunity to make an educated purchase. That's salability to me. But in the case of Sun-ISP, I'm left with the impression that this outfit is a reseller of a product that they don't understand in the first place. Subsequent self-promotion and pandering further insults the thinking buyer.