Satellite Internet Forum

[Harvey Vasquez]

I feel like I got SHAFTED. I just got DIRACWAY satellite Internet system installed today. Took a little over an hour to set up, which is fine.

I perform a ping to anything outside and get host not found. Ok, so the installer says give it a few to settle in. In about 30 minutes we're browsing pages. I test a few downloads, looks good. Then I try and reach out trying other Internet apps I enjoy using online. E-mail for one! Turns out, no other incoming pop3 besides @direcway.com allowed/blocked. I have three I use, by the way. Domains are mail.alltel.net and mail.getashell.com for starters. Both very promptly rejected I'm sure before ever getting outside direcway, they error immediately. So, I switch and try using the alternate dial-up connection I still have in service. The e-mails come through JUST fine. So I call tech support, going to the e-mail extension help line (#2). Getting someone who barely speaks English, I try to explain my problem. I've worked at an ISP for 5 years doing mostly tech support and I know the book like the back of my hand. Going through her verbatim I acknowledge her inquiries then go about telling her exactly what I've already tested and new to be true. After putting me on hold three times for about 2 minutes at a time to ask someone for the answers/responses to the statements being proposed to her, she comes back and her final response is that alltel is having a problem. Please!

I ask to speak to supervisor or someone in charge over her who could give me some real and solid answers. She blows me off with the standard, "T'hay are awl bizzy sur". At this point I was a little ve clempt and after trying to explain my situation and getting the standard, "I no notting" answer, teh problhem is wit alltel" I ask for her name and state that I want to make a complaint and need too speak to a supervisor for sure this time, she gives me a case bumber, varifies my info and puts me on hold to speak to the next available supervisor, not a minute later I was speaking to a dial tone.

Now this is ridiculous. Getting other pop3 incoming through and standard ISP is common place. The idea was to keep getting this mail till all accounts information to all contacts were carried over then I'd happily move onto my @direcway.com account. Like I'm going to keep two isp's, one for e-mail, you know? So knowing by now, that their pop3 works fine but anything outside is blocked, I get a slight gimp in my leg. Fine, I can live through it. I'll just web mail till things are right, right? All I wanted from the tech or supervisor was answers about the overly priced service I just obtained. I don't think i was asking for to much but apparently ...

Point 2. Onto to browsing the Internet. Turns out anything that uses a Network connection is out of the question. I or my family can't even go to pogo.com which has a plethora of java games we use to enjoy on dial-up but now, CAN'T EVEN GET ON SATELLITE BROADBAND! Among other places with survey's and login popups are "excluded". Heck! I can't even log onto instant messengers! MSN or AOL! What is this crap?! And this is minimal! This is redicules. I'm not even get services that I got when I used the inferior 56K baud technology. I am repulsed and at this point limping like a chimpanzee with a serious gimp. On top of that, I can't use FTP for study and school related work nor IRC (Internet relay chat) to communicate in real time with business associates. And get (or don't get) all this for a whopping 600$ install/equipment and 60$ a month upkeep. Dear God!

Come on fellahs, this is out right exploitation of my pocket book and TIME and I don't know what to do about it at this point. This here fellahs, isn't any better than 56 K. Not more than half the stuff you use to can't access anymore and what they do offer, high  speed doesn't make up for the difference AT ALL! I don't want to browse at 600K people and download from http that offers nothing I need to get MY business done. This is awful. I want/hope to get out of my contract. This is the WORST service I've ever had or witnessed and I started at a podunk in house ISP that eventually was a success in it's own right. I know the ropes. I am getting nothing for the exuberant charge for their infinitely CRAPPY service thus far. And this is the first day.

[Harvey Vasquez]

Please excuse the bad grammar and in-cohesive sentences of my post. I'm a little upset and tired from working all day on home network I put together for nothing .. typos and cognitive thinking go out the window.

[Misbah]

Harvey, you have 30 days from the date you accept the installation to get out of the 15 month committment. Assuming you paid cash up front, you're entitled to a refund that does NOT include the installation fee. That's forfeit. And you must deinstall and return the equipment at your own expense. That said, it doesn't sound like you did your homework before investing in a satellite connection. Several of your complaints are related to the extreme latency associated with a 90,000 mile satellite path. I also believe you've gone into this with preconceived notions, and an unwillingness to accept any answer other than the ones you want to hear.

Email. I have several POP accounts myself, and have never had the difficulty you describe. My email client retrieves mail from each of them at 15 minute intervals with minimal interruptions. Sending is a different story though, but anybody with ISP background should already know this. With a few exceptions, most accounts should be configured to send via SMTP.DIRECWAY.COM (or numerical equivalent). IMAP is said to be much more efficient over satellite than is SMTP. It's on my list of things to do, but I haven't determined yet if HUGHES email servers support IMAP. If they do, I'm going to test drive Thunderbird in IMAP mode. Something for you to think about.

FTP. Works fine for me, always has. I'd recommend you check out your FTP client. Matter of fact, FTP is generally the protocol that returns the fastest speeds via satellite.

JAVA/Surveys/Popups. Again, all work fine for me. Sounds like a browser problem, your end.

IMs/IRC: work poorly due to extreme latency. The IM/IRC servers time out too fast. They aren't programmed to wait long enough for the sometimes 2000-3000ms delay in getting a response from your computer.

VOIP and VPN don't work worth crap either. Don't even think about 1st person shooter games.Tech Support: outsourced - what else can I say? I recommend a little less attitude, and a lot more time on satellite internet self-help forums. Ask questions, listen, learn.

[Harvey Vasquez]

Harvey, you have 30 days from the date you accept the installation to get out of the 15 month committment. Assuming you paid cash up front, you're entitled to a refund that does NOT include the installation fee. That's forfeit. And you must deinstall and return the equipment at your own expense. That said, it doesn't sound like you did your homework before investing in a satellite connection. Several of your complaints are related to the extreme latency associated with a 90,000 mile satellite path. I also believe you've gone into this with preconceived notions, and an unwillingness to accept any answer other than the ones you want to hear.

Email. I have several POP accounts myself, and have never had the difficulty you describe. My email client retrieves mail from each of them at 15 minute intervals with minimal interruptions. Sending is a different story though, but anybody with ISP background should already know this. With a few exceptions, most accounts should be configured to send via SMTP.DIRECWAY.COM (or numerical equivalent). IMAP is said to be much more efficient over satellite than is SMTP. It's on my list of things to do, but I haven't determined yet if HUGHES email servers support IMAP. If they do, I'm going to test drive Thunderbird in IMAP mode. Something for you to think about.

FTP. Works fine for me, always has. I'd recommend you check out your FTP client. Matter of fact, FTP is generally the protocol that returns the fastest speeds via satellite.

JAVA/Surveys/Popups. Again, all work fine for me. Sounds like a browser problem, your end.

IMs/IRC: work poorly due to extreme latency. The IM/IRC servers time out too fast. They aren't programmed to wait long enough for the sometimes 2000-3000ms delay in getting a response from your computer.

VOIP and VPN don't work worth crap either. Don't even think about 1st person shooter games.Tech Support: outsourced - what else can I say? I recommend a little less attitude, and a lot more time on satellite internet self-help forums. Ask questions, listen, learn.

If it's latency, then that's SOME latency there.

I'm just getting flat out refused with all the aforementioned services I've tried to use. I'd understand if I got a simple time out but I'm getting flat out denied.

As far as java, surveys and pop ops go and the like, I've got 3 computers here. Two desktops and one laptop that ALL do the same thing when testing out these problems. The problems are identicle! I run Mozilla and IE on each machine and have tested these issues on each computer. I feel safe to say, it's not a browser issue. Perhaps it's mass hysteria.

As far as e-mail goes, I'm having NO problems with direcways account but I get flat out denied using other domains. If it simply timed out, I'd understand but I'm not making a network connection at all. I know the difference. I know that sending would be significantly stifled compared to what you get down but I wouldn't care as long as it goes. These are simply not working. While @ direcway sits pretty.

I can deal with latency. That's something I fully expected going into this but it's ON for one thing and OFF for others.

So I juggle between the concept of connection issues or those ports being closed.

Check my FTP client? Which one? I've checked them all not to mention trying through internet explorer as well. I can't FTP out to anything. It just activates and then stops just as fast. Well, it takes about three seconds and then poops. I've had these clients for some time and they've worked without a hitch till today. I go through these things.

MSN and AOL just poop while Yahoo does great. Granted they are on different networks. So some networks I can reach and some I can't, I assume? Considering the 90,000 mile satellite path i wouldn't think it was that big of a discrepancy but perhaps it is. I simply don't know.

I'm sorry I came across cross.

I wish I had your problems. Perhaps these issues will clear up.  I guess I'll just give it some time. I guess I expected something more from a promised 600K DL and also a supposed significant upload ... *cough*

I just expected 'middle of the road' with this but it's hardly that right now.  I'm happy with middle of the road. I probably expected to much out of the gate I suppose, I don't think my expectations were all that unreal. Just something functional. I'll watch, wait and listen in the mean time ...

Sorry for the vent.

[Harvey Vasquez]

and that out sourcing thing, that's for the birds. Considering I put out a good chunk of change to get something I assumed was decent, I've got a clear shot of the sky but there's no one at all worthy I can call to correspond on these issues or to service my stuff if needed. That's the stickler.   I'm not about above self help. I prefer it so I appreciate the board but there's only so far one can go when you've adressed the issues on your end which I'm not entirely through yet. I'll give it a week.

[Harvey Vasquez]

Mulling over everything, I probably look like an ass.

It's probably just latency.

Goodnight.

[Misbah]

Perhaps some of your internet-dependent applications don't "know" you changed connections. Many folks have reported that  REinstalling dependent software AFTER establishing a Direcway connection often helps straighten (some) things out. If your operating system is W2K or XP, have you done any "tweaking" in NT Services? If so, perhaps you've contributed to the problem yourself. How about security software? Incorrectly configured AntiVirus software can often slow things down so much that they almost look like they've stopped. Incorrectly configured firewalls will also produce some of the symptoms you describe. Many old hands in this business consider Norton products as distinctly "Direcway-unfriendly". McAfee isn't much better. Some have trouble with ZoneAlarm (free). I'm W2K, and get quite acceptable performance out of AVG/Pro and ZA/Pro. Having said that, my connection is PC-based (DW4000). I assume yours is self-hosted (DW6000).

But in the end, this latency issue will NOT go away. Absolute bare minimum ping time is in 500 ms territory. Factor in server lag, switching delays, trunking bottlenecks, and you'll soon find 2000-3000ms response times not all that unusual. Some 3rd party apps simply cannot cope. Assuming satellite is your only broadband choice, you either accept that as a "satellite fact of life" - or go back to dialup.

[Harvey Vasquez]

Perhaps some of your internet-dependent applications don't "know" you changed connections. Many folks have reported that REinstalling dependent software AFTER establishing a Direcway connection often helps straighten (some) things out.

They know. I've checked each one's connection options to compensate for the sattelite connection. That's a reasonable call but I spent some time getting these things optimized in anticapation for this connection.

If your operating system is W2K or XP, have you done any "tweaking" in NT Services? If so, perhaps you've contributed to the problem yourself. How about security software? Incorrectly configured AntiVirus software can often slow things down so much that they almost look like they've stopped. Incorrectly configured firewalls will also produce some of the symptoms you describe. Many old hands in this business consider Norton products as distinctly "Direcway-unfriendly". McAfee isn't much better. Some have trouble with ZoneAlarm (free). I'm W2K, and get quite acceptable performance out of AVG/Pro and ZA/Pro. Having said that, my connection is PC-based (DW4000). I assume yours is self-hosted (DW6000).

I've tweaked nothing OS service wise on any machine. They were all independant of each other, I've done nothing special with any of these machines. Just optimized for what they needed to perform client wise.

Windows Firewall through SP2 is the only thing running and I've went through configuration or just plain turned it off for testing.

I run avg free edition on both desktops and norton on lap top.

Yes I'm on the (DW6000)

But in the end, this latency issue will NOT go away. Absolute bare minimum ping time is in 500 ms territory. Factor in server lag, switching delays, trunking bottlenecks, and you'll soon find 2000-3000ms response times not all that unusual. Some 3rd party apps simply cannot cope. Assuming satellite is your only broadband choice, you either accept that as a "satellite fact of life" - or go back to dialup.

That sounds about right. I've already excepted this as a fact of life and that's most honest thing I've heard about this service. My bout with Satellite is now over and I'll be discontinuing my service.

Thanks for your time Misbah, sincerly.

Harvey.  

[Misbah]

Windows Firewall through sp2 is the only thing running and I've went through configuration or just plain turned it off for testing.

I run avg free edition on both desktops and norton on lap top.

Even before SP2, Direcway users running XP disabled the receive only Microsoft firewall in favor of one that protected both send and receive. And you would be absolutely amazed at how many XP users on broadband were sailing along smoothly - till SP2 hit the streets. Then the forums were literally overwhelmed with complaints of connection problems. I'm gonna throw out a rough estimate here, and say that AT LEAST HALF the Direcway owners I know that run XP (and I know a lot), got rid of those problems the instant they REMOVED SP2.

AVG (free) is ok, but Pro is more Direcway friendly - I've used both. Norton anything should be avoided.

And I can see that I failed make my point about reinstalling 3rd party software. How can you "optimize" anything anticipating the installation of something else that you obviously knew almost nothing about? This is best done AFTER Direcway connection is up and running. Easiest way to establish the requisite Windows registry changes is to simply uninstall internet-dependent and internet-related applications so that they can SEE the new Direcway connection upon re-installation. This is PARTICULARLY true of firewalls.

[Monitoring66]

I think it will be useful to have some example PC configurations that are known to work well with Direcway and have these configurations described in detail on the website. "Known PC configurations that work well with Direcway"

There are both dissatisfied and satisfied users of Direcway and we need to find out how the satisfied users are set ups and then document such set up in detail so we can learn.

So, if you find Direcway service good please send the details of your set up to HSS. They will put together some web pages describing these successful PC configurations. Please write everything, plus plenty of text comments etc. I will remove names from the published pages unless you say you want your name, email, web site etc. mentioned.

Getting the end user PC configuration right is only part of the story however. The hub configurations and the ability of the staff there to manage the traffic worries me a lot. I'm not sure much can be done by us to help them.

[Harvey Vasquez]

I think it will be useful to have some example PC configurations that are known to work well with Direcway and have these configurations described in detail on the website. "Known PC configurations that work well with Direcway"

There are both dissatisfied and satisfied users of Direcway and we need to find out how the satisfied users are set ups and then document such set up in detail so we can learn.

So, if you find Direcway service good please send the details of your set up to HSS. They will put together some web pages describing these successful PC configurations. Please write everything, plus plenty of text comments etc. I will remove names from the published pages unless you say you want your name, email, web site etc. mentioned.

Getting the end user PC configuration right is only part of the story however. The hub configurations and the ability of the staff there to manage the traffic worries me a lot. I'm not sure much can be done by us to help them.

That's the best thing that can come from this thread. No one should go through this much trouble, specially those that don't know better.

By optimizing my applications I meant, changing each connections setting in the APP's themselves. Many if not all have options for modem, cable, DSL, LAN, T1, etc. connections setting within themselves. You can go through them all and set them appropriately. That's what I mean by OPTIMIZE.

Also setting the dialer to never dial (If you happened to switch from dialup) should be the first thing you do. So any applications that use that, DOESN'T DIAL or go looking for a dialer.

After looking through my own router configuration to set up my network without a line going out, there are many options to block such services I was having problems within the router itself.

Since the (DW6000) actually ROUTES itself using DHCP and NAT, I really never needed a router like I was told. I found this out after looking at the IP configurations through the routers web interface. I should have looked closer before putting the money out on a linksys.

Point being, the satellite modem itself has a GOOD chance of having the same options and configurations as any other router or hardware of the same ilk. If all the services I was having problems with could be blocked with my linksys, chances are this could and might have been done through the modem itself. Not saying it was, but it's possible.

As for registry settings for 3rd party apps, I don't buy that.

Take this log for example: <Moolzx> = me <shek> = Established networking guru who runs 2 Internet service providers for over 7     (cont)

[Harvey Vasquez]

(cont)

<shek> did all the computers you tried the connection with also have a dialup connection on it?
<Moolzx> yes
<shek> did it ask to dial while you were trying the sat?
<Moolzx> no lol, I turned that off
<Moolzx> all of them
<shek> did you turn off auto detect proxy?
<shek> same place as the autodial.. or near it
<shek> in inet options
<shek> im guess that
<shek> because satalite has an extrme latency that
<Moolzx> I never touched any proxy settings, never thought too.
<shek> it could have decided you were offline
<shek> its on by default
<shek> look at it
<Moolzx> ok
<shek> under internet options.. lan settings
<Moolzx> Aah
<shek> then auto detect
<Moolzx> Those are off
<Moolzx> nothing checked
<shek> not that then =)
<Moolzx> =]
<shek> intresting
<Moolzx> yes
<shek> did you try tracerouting and manual telnet connections to different services?
<Moolzx> I tried telneting into their smpt and pinging out, never a traceroute which I shoulda
<shek> guess it doesnt matter since you got rid of it already hehe
<Moolzx> It was in my mind to do, I just never did. Was running around like a maniac
<Moolzx> yeah heh
<Moolzx> Answer me a question bro
<Moolzx> that last comment by that guy about registry settings for 3rd party apps to see the satellite, that sounds like the biggest load of s**T I've ever read.
<shek> lemme read it again.. url?
<Moolzx> direcway-not-worth-all-services-negligible-t946.html#p2409
<shek> im not sure which msg.. but no i've never heard of such a thing
<shek> the windows networking stack is a pain in the a** though
<Moolzx> It' Second to the last
<Moolzx> Well yeah. I thought everything was handled by TCP/IP not through the f***ing registry
<shek> oh
<shek> well
<shek> ya he's pretty much full of s**t
<Moolzx> LOL
<Moolzx> Yeah
<shek> although by doing what he says it might help but only in a round about sorta way
<Moolzx> you can't tell me that I need to reinstall each app I was having problems with on all three machines
<shek> no
<Moolzx> That's ludicrous
<shek> not at all
<Moolzx> and I don't believe that was the problem
<Moolzx> but?
<shek> well no.. all i meant was
<shek> if the windows network stack was jacked.. which does happen..
<shek> its normally the proxy issue
<Moolzx> I see
<Moolzx> but then my problem would have been around the table, wouldn't it?
<shek> and by basically reinstalling everything each app has to recheck how it connects
<Moolzx> I see
<shek> its retarded
<Moolzx> heh
<shek> but it does happen
<Moolzx> I see
<shek> no i wouldnt think that was your problem though
<shek> he was stabbing in the dark
<shek> he COULD have kinda been right but i doubt it
<shek> if you had the auto detect proxy checked..
<shek> then it would have been more likely
<Moolzx> Right
<shek> but i doubt it still cause.. it should have been more consistent
<shek> i really couldnt tell ya what the prob was though without testing it.. and neither can he
<shek> the chances of it being on your end are pretty slim though
<shek> since you tried on 3 different pc .. and with and without that router
<Moolzx> yes 06:48:49
<shek> and the fact the connection did work in part
<Moolzx> yes

There's a LOT of things customers aren't aware of here and should be. Not all are as thorough as I am. I know this isn't customer service but somethings need to come correct here.

[Harvey Vasquez]

I should also add that this version of sat modem is bi-directional, handling bothin incoming and out outgoing.

[Misbah]

Worst case of "biting the hand that feeds you" I've seen in a long long time Harvey. I applaud your decision to cancel the Direcway account.

[fergwa]

I have been using HUGHES DIRECWAY for over a year with no POP or SMTP problems at all - until the past few days when all SMTP and POP3 was suddenly denied - it took 4 calls to tech support and several hours proving to each that there was nothing wrong with my configuration so of course they claimed it must be the 3rd party ISP even though everyone else in the world could hit their servers. Anyways, the 4th tech asked one of his supervisors who admitted that they were in the process of eliminating the ability to access 3rd party POP accounts and that is the way it will be - i don't know what other services will also be expired but I'm sure I'll find out when everyone gets back tomorrow.